What Companies Are Really Looking For (And Why Strong Candidates Get Overlooked)

Career Intelligence Podcast...: Wow, this was such a helpful conversation. One of the things I really appreciate about Melissa's perspective is that it helps pull back the curtain on how organizations actually think about hiring and talent decisions. And for everyone listening, if today's conversation resonated with you, the biggest takeaway is this. Sometimes when we're not getting traction in our careers or in a job search, it's not about working harder or adding more credentials. Welcome to the Career Intelligence Podcast, your go-to resource for navigating the future of work in a world shaped by AI, innovation, and rapidly changing career paths. I'm Meredith Dinitz, and today we're diving into a topic that comes up constantly in conversations with the mid-career professionals I work with. A lot of people are asking some version of the same question. Why am I not getting traction? What are companies actually looking for? Hi Melissa, thank you so much for being here today. I am really excited for this conversation.

Melissa: Yeah, so good to see you, Meredith. And I'm really excited for this conversation. So appreciate the invitation today.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: Yes. so for listeners who may not be ⁓ with your role, can you share a little bit about what you do today today and the kinds of talent conversations you're typically a part of?

Melissa: Yes, of course. So I am in a strategic HR position within a CPG organization called Kimberly Clark and I've been with the company for 10 years this year. And overall, what I would say is I'm very involved with leaders when it comes to their talent strategy, organizational development, organizational design, and all of that is really underpinned by having

Career Intelligence Podcast...: and what happens behind the scenes in hiring decisions that candidates never really get to see. The reality is that most professionals experience hiring from the outside. They submit resumes, prepare for interviews, and try to present their experience in the strongest way possible. But they never get the visibility in how organizations are actually evaluating candidates and making decisions internally. I'm joined today by Melissa Clover. Often it's about understanding how organizations are evaluating candidates and learning how to position your experience more clearly and strategically. This is exactly the kind of work I focus on with clients. I work primarily with mid-career professionals who feel successful on paper but are starting to question what's next. Whether that's navigating a job search, preparing for leadership opportunities, or simply trying to better understand how their experience is being evaluated in the market.

Melissa: the right talent in role. So I partner very closely with our stakeholders to make sure that where we are planning for critical roles, we've got a revised pipeline in the works to make sure we have those individuals with the critical skills and experiences we're looking for. And then also when we have positions that we hiring for that are currently I would also partner with them and help make sure that they're either bringing in

Career Intelligence Podcast...: a senior talent business partner at Kimberly Clark, who partners closely with senior managers on talent strategy, leadership development, and organizational design. Melissa brings a global perspective shaped by experience across South Africa, Buran, and the United States. And she's currently completing her professional coaching certification with a deep passion for executive coaching and inclusive If you'd like support with that, you can learn more about working with me at yourcareerhappinesspc.com or connect with me directly on LinkedIn. All of those links along with Melissa's information will be included in the show notes. And if you found this conversation valuable, we'd love for you to follow the Career Intelligence Podcast and leave us a review. Thanks so much for listening today and we'll see you next time on the Career Intelligence Podcast.

Melissa: the right external talent, where we want to bring in just a different type of skill set that may not exist inside. Or if we have talent inside, I would help them as part of the talent acquisition process to select the right candidate in role.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: In today's conversation, we'll talk about what organizations are really looking for beyond skills and experience, the patterns that show up when strong candidates don't move forward, and some of the biggest misconceptions professionals have about how hiring decisions actually get made. By the end of this episode, you'll have a clear understanding of what organizations are really evaluating and how professionals can better position themselves in the process. Let's dive in. Well, congratulations on the 10 years. That's super exciting and one of the reasons I was really excited to have you on is because, you you sit in conversations that most candidates never get to see.

Melissa: Yeah,

Career Intelligence Podcast...: I'm curious from your perspective, when organizations are evaluating candidates, especially that mid-career or early director level, ⁓ what are they paying attention to beyond skills or experience? ⁓

Melissa: so what I would say is skills and experience would help you get into the interview. ⁓ once you're in the interview, ⁓ really about how you selling yourself. And one of the things that leads from my perspective of what I see quite often ⁓ cultural fit, both within the organization's culture, and also within the teams that the individual will be supporting. ⁓ is one of the first things, and if I'm interviewing someone, I can almost pick that up, I would say, within the first five to 10 minutes of the conversation. Behavioral attributes is also very important thing, which is underpinned as part of the culture. So I would also look for things like if a candidate is giving examples around how they've been able to influence different stakeholders in the organization, depending on the level of the role they're applying for. And influencing without authority is a big one. So because I work in an organization that's highly matrixed, a lot of the roles we hire for, you'll either have direct reports or you don't have direct reports, but you've got matrix supporting lines. And the influencing without authority, I would say, is probably one of the biggest skills that I look for, behavioral attributes. And then I also look for examples of curiosity. For me, that's a very important one. So it's about the candidate also asking the right questions.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: love that. When you talk about the right cultural fit, I know you said within the first few minutes, what are some signs that you look for immediately or that you can just tell, yes they could be great here.

Melissa: in the company that I work for, it's very much about relationships. ⁓ get everything done through the networks and through the relationships that you have. ⁓ communication and the way that someone talks and sells their self and how confident they also come across, I can pick that up very quickly within the interview. ⁓ What I like is when a candidate comes into the interview and is very conversational. ⁓ a little bit of small talk which I actually appreciate, even if it's about the weather. So for example, I had an interview last week and the person that arrived in the interview was specifically talking about, you know, it just started snowing outside and she was excited about it. And that opened up a little bit of more personal conversation for us to start talking about the weather. And I was just recently in her city and... I think that conversation was really great. And then also ⁓ has, for example, ⁓ a book or a picture of their family in the background, sometimes I appreciate that because I can also ask questions a little bit about, do you have a family? And you get to know the candidate a bit more. ⁓ So our company, I'm really looking at someone who's able to fit in with that relational ⁓ position. And that for me is a big sign of someone who's able to fit in from a cultural aspect within the organization.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: I love that. completely I try to always encourage when I'm talking with my clients ⁓ to their research on who they're meeting because one even one commonality, did you go to the same school? Did you live in the same city, state, whatever? ⁓ It make all the difference. So ⁓ yeah.

Melissa: Yes. and push up.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: And I also think another really important point you made is that, lot of people might think that their experience should speak for themselves, but it's really taking it a step further to, explain it and then really connect those dots, that makes a huge difference as well.

Melissa: Definitely, I think we're always looking for a common ground. And one of the recommendations I would give to your point is making sure that you really research the company. You go have a look in LinkedIn on who is the person that you're hiring. You reach out to networks of people that have maybe historically worked at the company and find out as much as you can so that when you come into the interview, you already have confidence. real example. as we're also hiring for a role recently was we had just launched this external advert for one of our products and it was this new platform that we had launched and the one candidate brought that up in the interview and I was very impressed because out of all the candidates that we were interviewing this candidate was the only one that brought that up so I could also see they had done their research and they were really excited about this new platform we had launched and for me that was a sign of she's serious about this job and she's done her homework.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: I think that's a really great point. Something I hear a lot from my is I know I'm qualified, so why am I not moving forward? from what you've noticed, what patterns tend to show up when strong professionals don't advance in a process? ⁓

Melissa: I think it's a lot of it ⁓ in experience is going back to ⁓ the of fit within that specific team. ⁓ what do is I'll look not only at the organizational fit, like I mentioned, but if I think about the team dynamics, ⁓ and I think about if I'm bringing this individual in, are they going to clash with the current team? Are they going to juggle? Are they going to work well together? Are they going to be able to partner and collaborate? ⁓ And I'll able to ⁓ really pressure test based on the specific questions that I would ask them to try and get a sense of that. And for the most part, you may have a very experienced and skilled individual coming into the interview. And if two of them on paper are, you know, one could even be more qualified than the other on paper, but the one that has better collaboration skills shows examples of partnership, shows, the influencing skills, I would recommend that they would proceed in the next round of interviews over the other candidate who lacked that a little bit. One of the other things where I haven't recommended someone to advance in an interview is if someone comes in with a level of arrogance or ego, and that again goes against the culture of the company. The last thing we want to do is bring in someone who thinks they know everything, they show lack of a growth mindset. And that can also come through very strongly in an interview. I listen for words like, we, my team have done that. For me, that shows a collaborative style, where if an individual only talks about themselves the whole time and brags about everything in a way that comes across inauthentic. So I'm not saying you can't come into the interview confident and showcasing your values, but there's a way to do that. those from my perspective would be limiters ⁓ would stop someone from progressing in the interview process.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: So interesting. two things I love to talk about ⁓ the first part when you mentioned cultural fit being warm. those soft skills ⁓ really matter and it seems like that would be like a no-brainer but I think that's such great feedback because people are like know I can do the job. I'm perfect on paper but ⁓ I'm not there as fly on the wall, right? Like I don't see how they're actually performing and to show that warmth ⁓ and to let those soft skills through. ⁓ And then to your other point of, being collaborative, ⁓ I know there's fine line. And even when I'm doing interview, ⁓ I do try to encourage my clients to say ⁓ a little more than we, but I think it's a really interesting point because You want to show the people you're meeting with that you know how to do it, but that you can also be that team player. What are your thoughts on that? ⁓

Melissa: Yeah, I think that's such a call-out, Meredith. And what I would say is it's probably about the balance of it. if I hear someone who only says I, I, ⁓ never we or my team or I worked through my team to achieve this, that for me would be more of a concern. So yes, I agree. If you're only saying we and my team and then nothing feels like they had the ownership, that would also be a problem. I would recommend a balance of both examples using ⁓ I using we. ⁓ That's a great call out.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: maybe it's initially starting little bit of the ⁓ eye to show that know how to do it. You've done it. ⁓ But then making sure bring in ⁓ the team we cross where appropriate. ⁓ That is ⁓ really advice.

Melissa: Correct. ⁓ one other point just to raise. as we are looking at roles, so when you mid-career and moving into more senior leadership roles, ⁓ we from ⁓ a set point of view, you've already got that. Right. But what we're looking at, it's to your previous point around the behaviors that are most important. And quite often we would advance people that might not necessarily be the most experienced, but because they've previously failed and they've given examples of failures and how they've learned from it, for me, it's the learning agility that sticks out. And I would advance someone who has learning agility, who might not have many experiences as another candidate. So another one that's really important is that ⁓ as I asked questions in interviews for the candidates to really show me some examples of where they failed and how did they go about that? Did they learn something from that? Because if they didn't, then for me that's also a red flag.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: that is so important and such great advice because people I think are so afraid to show failures, but you have to. ⁓ I'm curious. ⁓ from what you've seen, what do professionals most often ⁓ misunderstand about how hiring decisions are actually made?

Melissa: so I would start with, even the beginning of the process, I know there's a lot of misconceptions about even how the resume is viewed in organizations. Now, I know every organization would be different, so I'm talking about my specific organization where we have a talent acquisition team that reviews every resume. So there's no bot sitting behind the scenes that reviews the resume and then sends you an automated response, but we've got humans. behind the scene that is reviewing this. So think that's just one thing that I did want to also call out. ⁓ And then in terms of what else happens behind the scenes, I think a lot of the times it could also be that are... because we work in such a matrixed organization, there's a lot of different perspectives of leaders that will come in. ⁓ And... quite often what I've seen in the back end is we, build up a really robust pipeline. So we do have a lot of good candidates that have come in. And when we go into the final levels, I've often seen that the candidate that's ⁓ most selected is the candidate that isn't the most skilled or experienced. It really is the one that has the best growth mindset and has the biggest cultural for that team. So I would say that's. for the most part, the candidate that proceeds to the next level. I don't know if that's something that is, a lot of people going through this process might not understand that. They might think that just because I've got the experience, I have the skills, that that warrants that they will go through. But it really doesn't. It's so much more from a behavioral lens, especially at this level.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: to that point, the team that's looking at all resumes, what catches their eye initially to allow them to get to that first conversation to then determine the culture and the behavioral fit. Are there certain things because I know the keywords ⁓ and I know that's not maybe your lane completely, but if you have any thoughts on

Melissa: Yeah, so to your point, I don't review all these resumes. The team that does, I know what the hiring manager would recommend is specific organizations that they would like the candidates to have some experience in. And because we are CPG company, we would like to see that they've at least worked in CPG. So consumer, product goods company, ⁓ because a very FOSS. ⁓ high-performing environment. we want to make sure that they have some experience in that preferably. And then we would also look ⁓ specific, if we're hiring, for example, I support a global organization. ⁓ having global experience will help the candidate, not saying that that's a no-go if you've never worked ⁓ of North America, but it would benefit the candidate ⁓ have a global. experience. that be another thing that the talent acquisition team would look for. ⁓ And then of specific skills needed for that role. So that would need to be specifically on the resume. And then also diversity of different companies. I would also say in employment. I think that also be a red flag if there's a lot of gaps in employment or if the tenure at organizations is very short and A lot of different experiences, I would encourage that person to actually work with a career coach to help them with their resume and just see how to best plot that out. But yes, I would say definitely the type of companies that the individuals worked with. ⁓ And in our if you have been put through as a referral by someone, talent acquisition will always look at those resumes first. So like I said, they look at everyone's resumes, but they'll really prioritize, of course, internal candidates and then any referrals. if you're interested ⁓ a specific company and you know someone that works in that company, even if you don't know them very well, I would highly encourage the person to reach out to that individual and just... ⁓ get some recommendation if they're able to help get them a referral into the company because there's a much better chance of getting an interview through a referral.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: Excellent advice. I that completely. ⁓ I do think it's to hear to your first point that it isn't the most ⁓ skilled It's a lot of pieces that go in ⁓ to decision factor to decide if you're going to move them forward. So I think that is really helpful advice

Melissa: Yes.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: for someone who might be feeling stuck right now or not getting traction, ⁓ would you encourage them to focus first?

Melissa: what I would recommend is to stop just take a step back and have a look at ⁓ where in the process you getting stuck. Is it that you're struggling to get into the interview? Because for me that means that your resume isn't set up accurately or maybe you're applying for... jobs in the wrong organization. I would recommend that you go back and review a resume with a career coach or with a resume writer, someone that has experience in that. If you're getting stuck ⁓ not progressing as part of the interview process, I would also ask the person to reflect on what did the organization give them on why they haven't been successful? And I think it's okay also for individuals or candidates to reach out to the organization to get feedback because then you can also learn from that. So I think it's also about approaching it with curiosity and really trying to understand the why behind why you're not progressing so that you can learn from it. And what I would also say is as brutal as the interview process is think about what you're learning through every experience that you're going through. And I often like to say sometimes the delay in finding that right job is really developing you and preparing you for the role that you will eventually get. it's not about losing hope in the process and especially if you don't have a current role and you're desperate to find a job. I also say don't let a job define who you are and your self worth, but it's so much more than that. that's probably what I would do, but for sure reaching out to a career coach, someone who's experienced and who understands what you're going through. I would definitely recommend that too.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: it's hard sometimes for to like shift that mindset and not go ⁓ to the doom and know if you have any thoughts on one method or way to shift that mindset, to help they show up. But I know it's not always the easiest of times for sure. ⁓

Melissa: I think it's challenging and I can speak from my own experience with my husband who was unemployed for a couple of months and the interview process was very difficult for him. I know he always felt deflated when he didn't get ⁓ the or he didn't get the interview because he found that was a personal attack on who he was. And the one that really helped him was ⁓ just having a support system around you. ⁓ to keep encouraging you. And what I will share in his situation is we were so grateful that there were doors that were closed because they were the wrong doors. And if he had just accepted any job just do something, it would have been the wrong fit. It wouldn't have been a successful job and he wouldn't have been happy. going through that whole process also helped him ⁓ build So what was interesting is with the one role that he applied for, he was actually too overqualified for it. But there was another position that individual had within their network. And when that came available, they actually contacted my husband and said, I know you applied for this job about a month ago, but would you be interested or could I put you in contact with this other company? even by applying for roles and not getting them, you've created in a sense a network because maybe you are too overqualified for a position and through network something else could open up. I think it's difficult of course to like you're not progressing but always take a step back, reflect on what you're learning ⁓ and just try have some with yourself through this process.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: One thing you mentioned before and I know every company is different some clients will come to me and say I did try to ask for feedback and there was radio silence from HR, they won't tell me anything and I know there are certain rules or laws. don't know if you know if you have any thoughts on that because I know people like I wish they would just tell me something they won't tell me anything.

Melissa: what I would say is... If you're confident enough, and this actually happened last week when I was in an interview, you can ask for feedback even in the interview. So that was a new one for me. think you have to read the room too and see if you feel like it's the right time, especially if you know if the interview went really well. you know, I would turn it around in a... what feedback do you have based on... the experiences I'm bringing in and based on the experience and the skills you're looking at in the role, just to get an initial reaction. And I think there in itself, you could get feedback. was transparent in an interview that I had and I gave some direct feedback to the candidate saying, I don't think this is the right role for you. ⁓ And are the reasons why. And it wasn't saying he wasn't gonna progress to the next round or not, but it was just. live feedback based on what I was seeing and based on what I knew about the position. And it was nothing to knock on his experiences, but it was everything that he shared. I felt that he should be applying for bigger or exciting roles. I think it's about reading the room and deciding. And if you're not able to ask for feedback directly in the interview, I would say most hiring managers would provide feedback over email. wouldn't send hundred emails to get feedback, but ⁓ most I do think would provide feedback if you reached out to them afterwards to find out more from a learning curiosity, growth, having that growth mindset so that you can do something different in the future.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: if I'm hearing you correctly, ⁓ don't necessarily go the recruiter but if you have been able to get the hiring manager's email, to send the direct thank you and and you've known that you're not forward then maybe send a polite from a learning perspective email, ⁓ I really appreciate your time, great to you. Would you be willing to share a little bit of feedback ⁓ in the spirit of me growing for future? Is correct?

Melissa: Correct, And if they don't respond, yes, can also use the, mean, talent acquisition, they know everything about everything. They always get the feedback directly from the hiring manager. So they would also be able to provide it. But I always like to think of it as, people that are not always successful in interviews, the hiring manager, and in a lot of cases more recently, will end up becoming... somewhat of a mentor or a coach to that individual, especially if they're not ready. And it helps also then expand your network. look at it from that lens that it's not always, the no is no today, but maybe it's not no for the future. There might just be other areas where you're still building the character needed for that role. And part of that is asking for feedback.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: ⁓ When you think about everything we've about today, what's one you wish more professionals understood about how organizations really evaluate candidates?

Melissa: I would probably say... specifically in the interview because then you seeing ⁓ whole candidate I would say it's how they represent themselves because if you come into an interview with a lack of confidence and I understand that the process can degrade your confidence especially if you've been for multiple interviews but I've interviewed where I can see they have broken confidence and then for me I'm not very confident of them being able to do the role because of that. So I would say when you arrive in an interview, make sure you've got good posture, make sure you've got good internet because the last thing you want to is to have internet that's, comes and goes, it creates just another area of uncertainty. So it's about showing up, confident, being prepared. And especially at the end of the interview asking questions. come with what, you know, I love to hear, tell me about the culture of the organization if it's an external candidate. Tell me about the team dynamics. Tell me about the growth opportunities within the organization. So I'd say the all-encompassing aspects of, arriving confident, I would say is probably the number one. But remember, confident with a balance of not being too ego-tistic. and really just selling yourself and having good communication. So know that was more than one. ⁓

Career Intelligence Podcast...: No, but that was perfect. So helpful and I'm sure our... listeners are really appreciative of all of that. Melissa, I can't thank you enough for sharing your perspective today. I think this conversation is really going to help so many people and take the mystery out of a process that can feel very confusing from the outside. You shared some really excellent tips. anyone has any specific questions about your company. Is it OK if we ⁓ share your in the for people to reach out?

Melissa: Yes, of course, more than happy for people to reach out.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: Thank you so much again. It was so great to talk with you and I really appreciate your time today.

Melissa: Yeah thank you for having me on the show today Meredith. You too.

Career Intelligence Podcast...: Have a great day.